Does anyone here feed their dogs raw? If so, have you found any non-retail outlets that you could share? Anyone know of anyone who raises goats or rabbits or nequi or sheep?

I had researched the pitfalls of commercial food, but this latest scare was the last straw. So far, I do not see how it is either more work or more expense to feed raw than a better commerical kibble. And millions swear by it for the health and vitality of their pet. New at it, so would love to talk especially to anyone with experience.

Thanks. And sorry, there didn't seem to be a general pet discussion area.

hi, here there is some information about raw diet, and it is really expensier and it takes more time, but anyway, it is not a bad idea for those who want to do it, but time is reqired to feed raw our dogs. personally I do not use it, but I have friends who do.
the sites are these:
http://www.rockytopboxers.com/diet.html

I hope this info may be useful for you.

Robert,
I have just spent an hour reading the above website and others related to feeing RAW. My lab/rotweiler has been sick all day and am concerned about his food. After today and the food scare, I'm ready to start making the switch. But where to buy seems to be the problem. Let me know if you find out any info.
Belinda

What's a nequi?

Lots of the well fed local dogs get a cooked stew thing; Guacho. Lots of cheap cuts of meat if you look in Romero/Super 99 etc.; Desperdicio, I often buy pig liver at 25cent lb, and always big bag of mixed bones at 25cent.
Give my dogs raw liver, good for their blood count, and sometimes cook them a huge bowl of stew with bones and the cheap cuts (some is sold for pets, just ask at Romero etc. for pet meat) cooked with maize and any other vegetables getting old and maybe mix in a bit of the pig-meal that my geese eat. Dogs enjoy it far more than their usual Ascan, which I buy at Costco....Ascan is cheap and keeps the dogs in good order, made in Costa Rica
I know people go on about the poor ill treated 'local' dogs but we do tend to molly-coddle ours far too much...having a local wife the only time my 4 can sit with me on the sofa eating biscuits and watching the TV (not allowed my beer) is when she has a weekend with her family in the country, otherwise the dogs are not allowed in the house.

Colin

They look like a bit like a rat and a bit like a rabbit. The Panama Wildlife Guide I aquired calls them "Agouti" or "Neque" (i.e. Dasyprocta punctat, 50cm).
Later,
J

I made up a raw food mixture for several years for my dog in the US. It contained ground turkey and lamb, as well as many other natural ingredients. (In fact, the raw meat constituted less than 15% of the total volume.)

I mixed up about 40 days' of food in my kitchen sink, spooned a daily serving into baggies and kept it frozen. My dog loved it!

I got the recipe from the book "Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" by Dr. Pitcairn (available on Amazon.com). The book contains a huge number of natural food recipes (both for general health and for specific ailments, like weak kidneys or food allergies) and I can highly recommend it. Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of the book any longer.

I am a few days into feeding her raw at this point and it's quite interesting to observe. Someone responded about ground meat. Since El Rey in David sells hamburger at .69 cents a pound, I was offering this up to her. She still seemed hungry. I did find a great resource and joined a Yahoo Group called Rawfeeding with nearly 8,000 members. They suggested ground meat was insufficient as the dogs need the bones, too. Indeed, this morning, I put a pound of ground hamburger in her bowl as well as a chicken thigh with attached leg. She never touched the hamburger. She seems to like chicken feet a lot, too, and I've learned they are a great source of glucosamine. (http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding)

I have found that Bruna has lower prices on a number of things, will see what I can get at Pricesmart, and try to track down local sources (perhaps the chicken place in Poterillos?) for other meats and fish, but in the meantime, it appears that it will cost me about $2 a day to feed her well. That's no more expensive than an expensive kibble combined with the extras so she would eat it.

A lot of these raw feeders swear there are alternatives to Frontline and heartworm meds, but I am not ready to go that organic. Having said that, it appears the distributor of Frontline in Panama has no more Frontline for medium weight dogs...only large or small. So I can't get it.

I know I recently had some Off Botanicals for myself that a friend brought from the US. It's primary ingredient is Eucalyptus and it worked better than Deep Woods Off on me. And I am the type that a mosquito will find the quarter inch spot where I didn't apply whatever repellent. So I am wondering if I can come up with some eucalyptus water rinse that will serve to repel insects for the dog, as well as me, too.

All proponents of Raw feeding do swear by it. One concern I had was germs in raw meat, especially here. I was reminded by pet owners and vets that a dog's system is different from ours and graphically reminded of the incredibly nasty things it seems to be in their nature to eat or lick. It also became quite clear that freezing meat kills germs as well as cooking. I am finding that handing her a piece of meat is actually a whole lot easier than preparing kibble. It's just the shopping for it and seeking out bargains that is a bit daunting.

It is quite interesting to watch the difference in how she eats. With kibble, she ate at her bowl in the kitchen. With raw, I feed her outside and she grabs whatever piece is in the bowl and takes it elsewhere to eat alone at leisure. Seems like that is some primal instinct kicking in. Wonder why she would never think to take kibble somewhere else?

We haven't gotten into the raw feeding yet, but we do give our dogs, as treats, the meaty bones that we get from the Romero's butcher for, I think, 69 cents a pound. They like them straight out of the freezer and, like your dog, make straight for the outside with them. I've seen those ghastly chicken feet, but never even thought about them for the dogs.
Nor have I ever considered eucalyptus "tea" for rinsing the dogs, although I use branches of it in the house for the smell. As eucalyptus trees are plentiful here, that would be a real boon if it works! I've never liked using Frontline (although it was a necessity back in Florida) because I had two dogs who suffered neurological damage from the earlier, less refined product that was on the market before Frontline.

I fed our golden retriever every left-over rib, chicken, steak, fish bone and table scrap we had over the years. My neighbors (also dog lovers) would always complained to me that it was bad for the dog. Of course, they only fed their dogs off-the-shelf premium dog food. All of their dogs died relatively young. Our retriever is still alive at 15 (very old for his bread) and is doing well in the U.S. living with our neighbor who disapproved of the diet we provied for the dog for most of his life. I'm sure he is not getting his chicken bones anymore, but maybe he ate enough during his 13 years with me to carry him through. Scott McAda

Several people have asked me what we feed our dogs, so here goes.

Disclaimer: in no way is this a recommendation on my part. I'll just post what works for us and for keeping our nine rescued street dogs healthy. Cats have a different nutritional requirement but I'm sure there's a lot of information on the internet about a raw food diet for cats.

I will also post this on boquete.org under Classified/Pets and Animals. There's a good discussion there. Someone mentioned hamburger meat at El Ray's for 69 cents a pound. I'll check it out, because in Volcan I pay $1.00 per pound when I order around 60 lbs. of it, packaged in 4-lb packages, to keep in the freezer.

Here's a good site for your own research: http://www.dogtorj.net/id7.html

Our research indicates that a dog's digestive system is not capable of processing grains, the mainstay of most commercial dry dog foods. Many of them list corn (some form of it) within the first three ingredients. Why? Corn is cheap. (Corn is also one of the leading causes of allergies in dogs.) Commercial dry dog food is sprayed with fat to make that junk palatable. Put a little in your hand and you can feel the yucky grease. The fat can quickly turn rancid if the food is not kept in a clean, airtight container; and the container needs to be washed with soap and hot water before it is refilled each time. Commercial dog food is also reported to contain the carcasses of dead animals - dead from disease, animals which have been euthanized, etc...and of course, those dead and rendered animals carry the disease or medication for euthanasia in their bodies...all of which goes into commercial dog food. No matter what the brand, many commercial pet foods are manufactured by the same company, but are marketed under different name brands - including their "claims" for a "healthful" diet, etc.

Nor is the dog's digestive system designed to assimilate cooked foods.

Some raw food web sites will argue vehemently against giving vegetables to dogs. But there are many important nutrients in raw vegetables. Each person has to make his/her own decision about the diet of his or her beloved pet. If dogs were in "the wild," they would be eating animals whose stomachs contained partially digested greens...thus getting those nutrients.

About a year ago, we decided to do the raw food diet and came up with this "recipe." We use a mixture of about 70% raw hamburger and 30% fresh bone meal for calcium....I think it's called asserin. With that (about 10 lbs. total meat/asserin at a time) we mix perhaps 8 cups of the vegetable "slush." (You could also include egg shells with the vegetable slush for calcium.)

We have a Vitamix, a very powerful blender. We prepare about 4 gallons of the vegetable slush at a time. One bucket goes in the refrigerator and one in the freezer. (With nine dogs, one bucket lasts about 5 or 6 days.) The slush can include cabbage, green peppers, garlic (lots), carrots, apples, celery, Swiss chard, broccoli, cauliflower...anything that is not in the nightshade family, such as potatoes, onions, tomatoes, etc. The cell walls of the vegetables need to be broken down in order for the dog to assimilate the nutrients. We also add some raw cider vinegar. (RAW cider vinegar is the elixir of the gods, but it is not to be found in Panama. We make our own. That's another subject if anyone is interested.)

Also, we give each dog several raw meat bones three or four times a week. If you ask the butcher for small ones, the dogs can masticate them - another good source of calcium...and great for the teeth and gums. Raw chicken wings (and feet) are said to provide a wide mixture of nutrients. When we give our dogs the bones or chicken wings, we have to feed the smaller dogs inside and "supervise" the dogs outside so that the big ones don't steal the bones of the smaller dogs - and so that the big ones don't get into a fight over the bones. (Fortunately, tile floors are easy to clean!)

If I had only one or two dogs, I'd regularly throw out a raw chicken carcass or a whole raw fish. (The cooked bones can cause problems, not the raw bones.) Not long ago I saw a butcher getting ready to throw out big leg bones of a cow and I got them gratis. There was still some meat on them. Well, that didn't work too well, because even with several of these big bones in the yard, the dogs still got into fights over them.

Here in Panama, we don't have access to lamb, venison, etc., but we are fortunate that we mostly have grass-fed beef. Here's a good site: http://mercola.com/ Do a search on Omega-6 oils. Apparently, because of processed foods and grain-fed animals, there is a much higher ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3, which causes many health problems in humans - including increased cancers - and in animals as well. So I don't know what people in the US would use for a healthful raw food diet for their dogs.

Before going to the raw food diet, we fed the dogs Purina Pro Plan. In a 50-lb bag, it's about $1.00 per lb. The raw food diet probably costs about the same - but the raw food diet is a LOT more work. (I think with one or two dogs it wouldn't be much more work, but with NINE dogs, it is.) The result is worth it, though. With nine dogs in and out of the house all day, there's no "doggie" smell in my house. At least two of them sleep with me at night, and my bed doesn't smell "doggie." Their teeth are strong and white, and their breath is sweet. (Don't forget to give the raw meat bones!) Their coats are shiny and healthy.

Our dogs also LOVE chayote, which we have growing on the fence, and watermelon.

The main idea is to do your own research and do what works for you and your dog. I've mentioned above the URLs of two good web sites. I hope this helps.

Dottie

Here's another good web site for the beginner at raw feeding: http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#started

Dottie

[quote name='Dottie' date='Apr 9 2007, 11:58 AM' post='6166']

About a year ago, we decided to do the raw food diet and came up with this "recipe." We use a mixture of about 70% raw hamburger and 30% fresh bone meal for calcium....I think it's called asserin.
------

Dottie, where do you find bone meal?

Before I went totally raw, I had started to cook for her. One thing I cooked was butternut squash. I would throw a couple of the cheap beef bones in for flavor, add a little parsley and garlic, mash it all when cooked and she loved it. Garlic is a natural insect repellent, btw.

My dog's breed is prone to bloat, which can be deadly in Belgians, so I steered clear of gas producing veggies like broccoli or cabbage. Supposedly, one of the best sources of veggie nutrients a dog can have is green tripe...green mondongo. By that, I mean the tripe prior to the bleached type that ends up on grocery shelves. As Dottie said, the stomach and intestinal linings are full of nutrients. Anyone have any idea of where you can find this?

I will add that about a week into raw, I noticed a big difference in her smell. It's true she no longer has that awful doggie smell and her coat is definitely shinier. And I have indeed decided no more Frontline. I would rather keep the yard free of pests and use a natural repellent on her coat than keep her body poisoned to kill whatever does land on her. The Cardomec I'm not willing to give up (yet) as I did have a dog die of heartworms many years ago due to not even knowing about them and the vet not even thinking to discuss it with me. The Cardomec brand is identical to Heartgard.

[quote name='Dottie' date='Apr 9 2007, 11:58 AM' post='6166']
Several people have asked me what we feed our dogs, so here goes.


Here's a good site for your own research: http://www.dogtorj.net/id7.html


ps...this site won't load in for me. And Thanks for the great posts.

The site http://www.dogtorj.net/id7.html opens fine for me. Perhaps try to copy and paste the URL into your web browser.

Dottie

As I said, ask for "asserin" from the butcher. This is the result from cleaning the saws after they saw the meat/bones. (I forgot to add parsley to the list of possible ingredients in the "vege slush.")

I've been using Revolution on my dogs for fleas, ticks, etc., but it is getting harder and harder to find in Panama. With all the garlic the dogs are getting in their "vege slush," I think I'll try discontinuing the Revolution (or Frontline).

Dottie

Found a great inexpensive source for meat. Next to the Avicola Athena chicken plant in Poterillos, there is a Supermercado. eg..Chicken liver is .20 cents per pound and everything there is cheaper than I've found anywhere, including Bruna. Yesterday, I bought some beef ribs for soup that make great snacks. They were .62 cents per pound. A friend, new to raw, and I went last week and she figured she just fed her smallish dog for a month for around $11 making it much less expensive than kibble from Melo.